A Response to IK...

Ian! Great to hear from you...

A few initial thoughts that pop into my head as I read:

Firstly: This is no prosperity gospel!!! I can assure you of that. The same man who wrote the above blog also preached this:



(or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTc_FoELt8s&feature=related if the video is not working, which it isn't at the moment)

...which is pretty hard hitting, but makes it very clear John Piper does not preach a prosperity Gospel!

I see your point though, but if you read my earlier blog, which this post is a response to, my initial direction was that we should not be pre-occupied with the blessing/reward. I highlighted a bit of the above writings of JP which said it much better than I did! I think if our sole motivation is the reward, then we should start worrying...but I’m sure this is not what JP is saying, and neither I.

As Lewis (see earlier post which inspired these last few blogs) also writes, God is to be obey on the basis of simply who He is. He goes onto say how:

“God is such that if (per impossibile) his power could vanish and His other attributes remain, so that the supreme right were forever robbed of the supreme might, we should still owe Him precisely the same kind and degree of allegiance as we do right now”
Pg 185, Surprised by Joy

C.S. Lewis

So (not wanting to get too caught up in Lewis’ quote) what comes first in all this is God’s glory.
It is not a case of needing/wanting to be happy and stumbling upon that in Christianity. We are however, built to be happy, and as Piper says, “obeying God is the only route to final and lasting happiness”. Piper writes more extensively in his well-known and read book ‘Desiring God’ that “The chief end of man is to glorify God by enjoying Him forever”. I strongly encourage you Ian (and everyone else!) to get hold of a copy of this book and have a read.

In fact, I have a spare copy, and will give it to someone who promises to read it! But yes, our purpose in life is not to be happy and have great comfort –that’s not the picture we get from the Bible, or indeed the verse I’ve put below! I was also blogging about Hebrews (the book) a few weeks back, and especially Chapter 11, where these great examples of the faith “did not receive what had been promised”.
One other thought:

40 and when they had called in the apostles, they beat them and charged them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go. 41 Then they left the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer dishonor for the name. 42 And every day, in the temple and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ.
Acts 5:40-42

Nothing much to say, it just popped into my head!

I’m not sure if I’ve answered any of your points, or put my thoughts across well, but what I would strongly suggest is to put the blog from Piper needs to be taken in context, and read his book ‘Desiring God’. It’s probably worth noting he’s no crazy American randomer with some controversial thing to say, but a man searching after God with his whole heart, committed to Biblical truth, and has a reputation for being ‘solid’!

Ps. I hope you don't mind me making a post out of this! It just seemed easier... :) Let me know your thoughts.

Also check out Will Eley's post http://sirkeiserwillhelm.blogspot.com/2009/05/idol-chatter.html for more on Idols and Satisfaction in God....

Joy & John Piper...

This is in response to my earlier post, in which I seem to have waded too deep into the theology of Christian Hedonism without realising! But here is a good little post from John Piper about the subject, and arguing against the view that Joy/etc is not to be sought.

He says it much better and with a much clearer structure than I have. Basically, a part of what I was thinking is this > *

I would really like to see JP and CSL have a discussion about this.

I have put a few things I find interesting in Italics...

We Want You to Be a Christian Hedonist!
By John Piper August 31, 2006

What Is Christian Hedonism?
My shortest summary of Christian Hedonism is: God is most glorified in us when we are most satisfied in him.

We all make a god out of what we take the most pleasure in. Christian Hedonists want to make God their God by seeking after the greatest pleasure—pleasure in him.

By Christian Hedonism, we do not mean that our happiness is the highest good. We mean that pursuing the highest good will always result in our greatest happiness in the end. We should pursue this happiness, and pursue it with all our might. The desire to be happy is a proper motive for every good deed, and if you abandon the pursuit of your own joy you cannot love man or please God.

The Difference Between Worldly and Christian Hedonism
Some people are inclined to believe that Christians are supposed to seek God’s will as opposed to pursuing their own pleasure. But what makes Biblical morality different than worldly hedonism is not that Biblical morality is disinterested and duty-driven, *but that it is interested in vastly greater and purer things. Christian Hedonism is Biblical morality because it recognizes that obeying God is the only route to final and lasting happiness*. Here are some examples of this from the Bible:

Luke 6:35 says, "Love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great." It is clear when Jesus says “expect nothing in return” that we should not be motivated by worldly aggrandizement, but we are given strength to suffer loss by the promise of a future reward.

Again, in Luke 14:12-14: "When you give a dinner or a banquet, do not invite your friends or your brothers or your kinsmen or rich neighbors, lest they also invite you in return, and you be repaid. But when you give a feast, invite the poor . . . and you will be blessed, because they cannot repay you. You will be repaid at the resurrection of the just." That is, don't do good deeds for worldly advantage; rather, do them for spiritual, heavenly benefits.

Should Duty Be Our Main Motivation?
But some will say, "No, no. These texts only describe what reward will result if you act disinterestedly. They do not teach us to actually seek the reward."

Two answers to this objection:

1) It would be foolish to say, "If you take this pill, I’ll give you a nickel," if you expect the desire for the nickel to ruin the pill. But Jesus was not foolish. He would not offer blessing to those who obey him and then hold it against us if these blessings motivated our obedience.

2) Even more importantly, there are texts that not only commend that we do good in the hope of future blessing, but command it.

Luke 12:33 says, "Sell your possessions, and give alms; provide yourselves with purses that do not grow old, with a treasure in the heavens that does not fail." The connection here between alms and having eternal treasure in heaven is not a chance result—it is the explicit purpose: "Make it your aim to have treasure in heaven, and the way to do this is to sell your possessions and give alms."

And again, Luke 16:9 says, "Make friends for yourselves by means of unrighteous mammon, so that when it fails they may receive you into eternal habitations." Luke does not say that the result of using possessions properly is to receive eternal habitations. He says, "Make it your aim to secure an eternal habitation by the way you use your possessions."

Therefore, a resounding NO to the belief that morality should be inspired more by duty than delight.

Don’t Be Too Easily Satisfied
Hebrews 11:6 teaches, "Without faith it is impossible to please [God]. For whoever would draw near to God must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who seek him.” You cannot please God if you do not come to him looking for reward. Therefore, faith that pleases God is the hedonistic pursuit of God.

As Christian Hedonists we know that everyone longs for happiness. And we will never tell them to deny or repress that desire. It is never a problem to want to be satisfied. The problem is being satisfied too easily. We believe that everyone who longs for satisfaction should no longer seek it from money or power or lust, but should come glut their soul-hunger on the grace of God. We will bend all our effort, by the Holy Spirit, to persuade people that they can be happier in giving than receiving (Acts 20:35); that they should count everything as loss for the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus their Lord (Philippians 3:8); that the aim of all of Jesus' commandments is that their joy be full (John 15:11); that if they delight themselves in the Lord he will give them the desire of their heart (Psalm 37:4); that there is great gain in godliness with contentment (1 Timothy 6:6); and that the joy of the Lord is their strength (Nehemiah 8:10).

We will not try to motivate anyone with appeals to mere duty. We will tell them that in God’s presence is full and lasting joy (Psalm 16:11) and our only duty is to come to him, seeking this pleasure.

(Adapted from John Piper’s article, Christian Hedonism: Forgive the Label, but Don't Miss the Truth.)